Set gitter aside

[Константин Дудков]

Igniters,

Last months there are a lot of questions in userlist and gitter and
answering that questions I found gitter completely inappropriate for
user support:

  - there are no threads there, so it's hard to track discussion or see
unanswered questions
  - when somebody post stacktrace or code snippet all message list
scrolls far up, hiding previous messages
  - many questions that need more than simple answer or some kind of
discussion are moved to anyway
  - using gitter people are waiting for fast answer, that is not always
possible (timezones, etc.)

I think it is better to remove link to gitter from all our sites/manuals
and to focus on answering in userlist and StackOverflow only.

Thoughts?

--
Regards, Konstantin.

[Vladimir Ozerov]

Konstantin,

I do think it is good idea to remove this channel completely. It is true,
that Gitter is not very convenient instrument. But it is very easy to use
from user perspective, especially for ad hoc questions and chatting about
the product. SO is not appropriate for this due to aggressive moderators,
and user list is not appropriate either because it requires subscription
which user might want to avoid (spam in emails).

May be it makes sense to change the instrument, not remove it. E.g. move to
Slack.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Igniters,
>
> Last months there are a lot of questions in userlist and gitter and
> answering that questions I found gitter completely inappropriate for user
> support:
>
>  - there are no threads there, so it's hard to track discussion or see
> unanswered questions
>  - when somebody post stacktrace or code snippet all message list scrolls
> far up, hiding previous messages
>  - many questions that need more than simple answer or some kind of
> discussion are moved to anyway
>  - using gitter people are waiting for fast answer, that is not always
> possible (timezones, etc.)
>
> I think it is better to remove link to gitter from all our sites/manuals
> and to focus on answering in userlist and StackOverflow only.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Regards, Konstantin.
>

[Vladimir Ozerov]

Correction: "I do *NOT* think it is good idea to remove this channel
completely."

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Vladimir Ozerov <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Konstantin,
>
> I do think it is good idea to remove this channel completely. It is true,
> that Gitter is not very convenient instrument. But it is very easy to use
> from user perspective, especially for ad hoc questions and chatting about
> the product. SO is not appropriate for this due to aggressive moderators,
> and user list is not appropriate either because it requires subscription
> which user might want to avoid (spam in emails).
>
> May be it makes sense to change the instrument, not remove it. E.g. move
> to Slack.
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Igniters,
>>
>> Last months there are a lot of questions in userlist and gitter and
>> answering that questions I found gitter completely inappropriate for user
>> support:
>>
>>  - there are no threads there, so it's hard to track discussion or see
>> unanswered questions
>>  - when somebody post stacktrace or code snippet all message list scrolls
>> far up, hiding previous messages
>>  - many questions that need more than simple answer or some kind of
>> discussion are moved to anyway
>>  - using gitter people are waiting for fast answer, that is not always
>> possible (timezones, etc.)
>>
>> I think it is better to remove link to gitter from all our sites/manuals
>> and to focus on answering in userlist and StackOverflow only.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Konstantin.
>>
>
>

[dmagda]

I share the same opinion as Konstantin.

Gitter/slack/whatever is a good communication channel for contributors and committers who *work together* on a specific functionality or component and want to discuss things faster.

As for general user or dev questions they should be directed to the mailing lists directly since all we are volunteers here and will reply depending on personal availability.

Finally, the ASF board raised a reasonable question on how do we ensure that people get a response, who keeps an eye on the channel…

So, as a first step I would remove all the references to the channel on Ignite site unless we have individuals here who track it.

—
Denis

> On Oct 26, 2017, at 7:11 AM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Igniters,
>
> Last months there are a lot of questions in userlist and gitter and answering that questions I found gitter completely inappropriate for user support:
>
> - there are no threads there, so it's hard to track discussion or see unanswered questions
> - when somebody post stacktrace or code snippet all message list scrolls far up, hiding previous messages
> - many questions that need more than simple answer or some kind of discussion are moved to anyway
> - using gitter people are waiting for fast answer, that is not always possible (timezones, etc.)
>
> I think it is better to remove link to gitter from all our sites/manuals and to focus on answering in userlist and StackOverflow only.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Regards, Konstantin.

[Anton Vinogradov-2]

I fully agree with Konstantin and Denis.
Gitter is a project without owner and we should find owner or get rid of
it.
User & dev lists seem to be enough to keep moving forward.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I share the same opinion as Konstantin.
>
> Gitter/slack/whatever is a good communication channel for contributors and
> committers who *work together* on a specific functionality or component and
> want to discuss things faster.
>
> As for general user or dev questions they should be directed to the
> mailing lists directly since all we are volunteers here and will reply
> depending on personal availability.
>
> Finally, the ASF board raised a reasonable question on how do we ensure
> that people get a response, who keeps an eye on the channel…
>
> So, as a first step I would remove all the references to the channel on
> Ignite site unless we have individuals here who track it.
>
> —
> Denis
>
> > On Oct 26, 2017, at 7:11 AM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Igniters,
> >
> > Last months there are a lot of questions in userlist and gitter and
> answering that questions I found gitter completely inappropriate for user
> support:
> >
> > - there are no threads there, so it's hard to track discussion or see
> unanswered questions
> > - when somebody post stacktrace or code snippet all message list scrolls
> far up, hiding previous messages
> > - many questions that need more than simple answer or some kind of
> discussion are moved to anyway
> > - using gitter people are waiting for fast answer, that is not always
> possible (timezones, etc.)
> >
> > I think it is better to remove link to gitter from all our sites/manuals
> and to focus on answering in userlist and StackOverflow only.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > --
> > Regards, Konstantin.
>
>

[yzhdanov]

I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking to do so
in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.

--Yakov

[dsetrakyan]

How about we continue to have the Gitter channel, but remove the link from
the website?

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking to do so
> in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.
>
> --Yakov
>

[yzhdanov]

Agree

--Yakov

[Константин Дудков]

Agree.

IMHO we should remove link to gitter from everywhere and keep answering
there, but for questions about product usage we should ask to ask the
question in userlist.

27/10/2017 02:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan пишет:

> How about we continue to have the Gitter channel, but remove the link from
> the website?
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking to do so
>> in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.
>>
>> --Yakov
>>
>

--
Regards, Konstantin.

[dmagda]

Gitter channel evaporated from the Ignite site. Exhale folks...

—
Denis

> On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:55 AM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Agree.
>
> IMHO we should remove link to gitter from everywhere and keep answering there, but for questions about product usage we should ask to ask the question in userlist.
>
> 27/10/2017 02:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan пишет:
>> How about we continue to have the Gitter channel, but remove the link from
>> the website?
>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking to do so
>>> in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.
>>>
>>> --Yakov
>>>
>
> --
> Regards, Konstantin.

[Dmitriy Pavlov]

Denis, thank you for review and merge!
Link was removed also from https://github.com/apache/ignite repository main
page.

Also link to TeamCity builds was updated. Dynamic build status SVG provided
by TC won't be displayed correctly by github because github performs image
caching, but link is now correct. TC SVG from readme.md can be displayed by
other markdown viewers.


пт, 27 окт. 2017 г. в 22:59, Denis Magda <[hidden email]>:

> Gitter channel evaporated from the Ignite site. Exhale folks...
>
> —
> Denis
>
> > On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:55 AM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Agree.
> >
> > IMHO we should remove link to gitter from everywhere and keep answering
> there, but for questions about product usage we should ask to ask the
> question in userlist.
> >
> > 27/10/2017 02:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan пишет:
> >> How about we continue to have the Gitter channel, but remove the link
> from
> >> the website?
> >> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>> I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking to do
> so
> >>> in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.
> >>>
> >>> --Yakov
> >>>
> >
> > --
> > Regards, Konstantin.
>
>

[Pavel Tupitsyn]

Denis, Dmitry,

Looks like you forgot
https://github.com/apache/ignite/tree/master/modules/platforms/dotnet
and
https://github.com/apache/ignite/tree/master/modules/platforms/cpp

Thanks,
Pavel

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Dmitry Pavlov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Denis, thank you for review and merge!
> Link was removed also from https://github.com/apache/ignite repository
> main
> page.
>
> Also link to TeamCity builds was updated. Dynamic build status SVG provided
> by TC won't be displayed correctly by github because github performs image
> caching, but link is now correct. TC SVG from readme.md can be displayed
> by
> other markdown viewers.
>
>
> пт, 27 окт. 2017 г. в 22:59, Denis Magda <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Gitter channel evaporated from the Ignite site. Exhale folks...
> >
> > —
> > Denis
> >
> > > On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:55 AM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Agree.
> > >
> > > IMHO we should remove link to gitter from everywhere and keep answering
> > there, but for questions about product usage we should ask to ask the
> > question in userlist.
> > >
> > > 27/10/2017 02:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan пишет:
> > >> How about we continue to have the Gitter channel, but remove the link
> > from
> > >> the website?
> > >> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >>> I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking to
> do
> > so
> > >>> in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.
> > >>>
> > >>> --Yakov
> > >>>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards, Konstantin.
> >
> >
>

[Dmitriy Pavlov]

Hi Pavel, thank you. Could you please do the same for this modules?
I can remove gitter but I am not sure about CI server links correctness.

чт, 2 нояб. 2017 г. в 9:38, Pavel Tupitsyn <[hidden email]>:

> Denis, Dmitry,
>
> Looks like you forgot
> https://github.com/apache/ignite/tree/master/modules/platforms/dotnet
> and
> https://github.com/apache/ignite/tree/master/modules/platforms/cpp
>
> Thanks,
> Pavel
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Dmitry Pavlov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Denis, thank you for review and merge!
> > Link was removed also from https://github.com/apache/ignite repository
> > main
> > page.
> >
> > Also link to TeamCity builds was updated. Dynamic build status SVG
> provided
> > by TC won't be displayed correctly by github because github performs
> image
> > caching, but link is now correct. TC SVG from readme.md can be displayed
> > by
> > other markdown viewers.
> >
> >
> > пт, 27 окт. 2017 г. в 22:59, Denis Magda <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > Gitter channel evaporated from the Ignite site. Exhale folks...
> > >
> > > —
> > > Denis
> > >
> > > > On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:55 AM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Agree.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO we should remove link to gitter from everywhere and keep
> answering
> > > there, but for questions about product usage we should ask to ask the
> > > question in userlist.
> > > >
> > > > 27/10/2017 02:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan пишет:
> > > >> How about we continue to have the Gitter channel, but remove the
> link
> > > from
> > > >> the website?
> > > >> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <[hidden email]
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >>> I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking to
> > do
> > > so
> > > >>> in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --Yakov
> > > >>>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards, Konstantin.
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Pavel Tupitsyn]

Sure, done.

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Dmitry Pavlov <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Pavel, thank you. Could you please do the same for this modules?
> I can remove gitter but I am not sure about CI server links correctness.
>
> чт, 2 нояб. 2017 г. в 9:38, Pavel Tupitsyn <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Denis, Dmitry,
> >
> > Looks like you forgot
> > https://github.com/apache/ignite/tree/master/modules/platforms/dotnet
> > and
> > https://github.com/apache/ignite/tree/master/modules/platforms/cpp
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Dmitry Pavlov <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Denis, thank you for review and merge!
> > > Link was removed also from https://github.com/apache/ignite repository
> > > main
> > > page.
> > >
> > > Also link to TeamCity builds was updated. Dynamic build status SVG
> > provided
> > > by TC won't be displayed correctly by github because github performs
> > image
> > > caching, but link is now correct. TC SVG from readme.md can be
> displayed
> > > by
> > > other markdown viewers.
> > >
> > >
> > > пт, 27 окт. 2017 г. в 22:59, Denis Magda <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > Gitter channel evaporated from the Ignite site. Exhale folks...
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > Denis
> > > >
> > > > > On Oct 27, 2017, at 2:55 AM, Konstantin Dudkov <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Agree.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMHO we should remove link to gitter from everywhere and keep
> > answering
> > > > there, but for questions about product usage we should ask to ask the
> > > > question in userlist.
> > > > >
> > > > > 27/10/2017 02:10, Dmitriy Setrakyan пишет:
> > > > >> How about we continue to have the Gitter channel, but remove the
> > link
> > > > from
> > > > >> the website?
> > > > >> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Yakov Zhdanov <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>> I would consider moving decent questions to mailing lists asking
> to
> > > do
> > > > so
> > > > >>> in response to gitter requests and at some point stop gitter.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --Yakov
> > > > >>>
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Regards, Konstantin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>