Excessive backups performance suggestion.

[Zhenya Stanilovsky]

Igniters, i found that suggesting zero backup for performance improvements sounds like malicious and further problems suggestion. May be it`s time to remove it ?
 
Example:
[07:59:27] Performance suggestions for grid (fix if possible)
[07:59:27] To disable, set -DIGNITE_PERFORMANCE_SUGGESTIONS_DISABLED=true
[07:59:27] ^-- Decrease number of backups (set 'backups' to 0)
 
 

[Alexei Scherbakov]

Definitely wrong recommendation.
Please file a ticket for removal.

чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 12:26, Zhenya Stanilovsky <[hidden email]
>:

>
> Igniters, i found that suggesting zero backup for performance improvements
> sounds like malicious and further problems suggestion. May be it`s time to
> remove it ?
>
> Example:
> [07:59:27] Performance suggestions for grid (fix if possible)
> [07:59:27] To disable, set -DIGNITE_PERFORMANCE_SUGGESTIONS_DISABLED=true
> [07:59:27] ^-- Decrease number of backups (set 'backups' to 0)
>
>

--

Best regards,
Alexei Scherbakov

[Anton Vinogradov-2]

The statement seems to be correct for cases when we'd like to perform fast
loading and computation and not afraid of data loss.
Performance boost always means we lose some guarantee.
Let's just update the proposal with the explicit warning that reducing
backups to zero may lead to data loss on any node failure.

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 1:09 PM Alexei Scherbakov <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Definitely wrong recommendation.
> Please file a ticket for removal.
>
> чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 12:26, Zhenya Stanilovsky <[hidden email]
> >:
>
> >
> > Igniters, i found that suggesting zero backup for performance
> improvements
> > sounds like malicious and further problems suggestion. May be it`s time
> to
> > remove it ?
> >
> > Example:
> > [07:59:27] Performance suggestions for grid (fix if possible)
> > [07:59:27] To disable, set -DIGNITE_PERFORMANCE_SUGGESTIONS_DISABLED=true
> > [07:59:27] ^-- Decrease number of backups (set 'backups' to 0)
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
> Alexei Scherbakov
>

[Alexei Scherbakov]

I'm quite sure most users do not want to lose data by default.

It's not wise to recommend such thing even with explicit warning.

чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 13:30, Anton Vinogradov <[hidden email]>:

> The statement seems to be correct for cases when we'd like to perform fast
> loading and computation and not afraid of data loss.
> Performance boost always means we lose some guarantee.
> Let's just update the proposal with the explicit warning that reducing
> backups to zero may lead to data loss on any node failure.
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 1:09 PM Alexei Scherbakov <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Definitely wrong recommendation.
> > Please file a ticket for removal.
> >
> > чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 12:26, Zhenya Stanilovsky
> <[hidden email]
> > >:
> >
> > >
> > > Igniters, i found that suggesting zero backup for performance
> > improvements
> > > sounds like malicious and further problems suggestion. May be it`s time
> > to
> > > remove it ?
> > >
> > > Example:
> > > [07:59:27] Performance suggestions for grid (fix if possible)
> > > [07:59:27] To disable, set
> -DIGNITE_PERFORMANCE_SUGGESTIONS_DISABLED=true
> > > [07:59:27] ^-- Decrease number of backups (set 'backups' to 0)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Alexei Scherbakov
> >
>

--

Best regards,
Alexei Scherbakov

[Anton Vinogradov-2]

>> most users do not want to lose data by default.
But some ready to sacrifice.

I know at least one case when "pure speed without insurance" required when
the ML model is studying.

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 1:39 PM Alexei Scherbakov <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm quite sure most users do not want to lose data by default.
>
> It's not wise to recommend such thing even with explicit warning.
>
> чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 13:30, Anton Vinogradov <[hidden email]>:
>
> > The statement seems to be correct for cases when we'd like to perform
> fast
> > loading and computation and not afraid of data loss.
> > Performance boost always means we lose some guarantee.
> > Let's just update the proposal with the explicit warning that reducing
> > backups to zero may lead to data loss on any node failure.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 1:09 PM Alexei Scherbakov <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Definitely wrong recommendation.
> > > Please file a ticket for removal.
> > >
> > > чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 12:26, Zhenya Stanilovsky
> > <[hidden email]
> > > >:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Igniters, i found that suggesting zero backup for performance
> > > improvements
> > > > sounds like malicious and further problems suggestion. May be it`s
> time
> > > to
> > > > remove it ?
> > > >
> > > > Example:
> > > > [07:59:27] Performance suggestions for grid (fix if possible)
> > > > [07:59:27] To disable, set
> > -DIGNITE_PERFORMANCE_SUGGESTIONS_DISABLED=true
> > > > [07:59:27] ^-- Decrease number of backups (set 'backups' to 0)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Alexei Scherbakov
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
> Alexei Scherbakov
>

[Zhenya Stanilovsky]

Thank you guys for your comments, Anton i understand your proposal but i believe that highlighted case is rare and data safety is preferred.  I fill the ticket [1].
 
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-12725  

>
>
>------- Forwarded message -------
>From: "Anton Vinogradov" < [hidden email] >
>To:  [hidden email]
>Cc: "Zhenya Stanilovsky" < [hidden email] >
>Subject: Re: Excessive backups performance suggestion.
>Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 14:11:50 +0300
>
>>> most users do not want to lose data by default.
>But some ready to sacrifice.
>
>I know at least one case when "pure speed without insurance" required when
>the ML model is studying.
>
>On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 1:39 PM Alexei Scherbakov <
>[hidden email] > wrote:
>
>> I'm quite sure most users do not want to lose data by default.
>>
>> It's not wise to recommend such thing even with explicit warning.
>>
>> чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 13:30, Anton Vinogradov < [hidden email] >:
>>
>> > The statement seems to be correct for cases when we'd like to perform
>> fast
>> > loading and computation and not afraid of data loss.
>> > Performance boost always means we lose some guarantee.
>> > Let's just update the proposal with the explicit warning that reducing
>> > backups to zero may lead to data loss on any node failure.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 1:09 PM Alexei Scherbakov <
>> >  [hidden email] > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Definitely wrong recommendation.
>> > > Please file a ticket for removal.
>> > >
>> > > чт, 6 февр. 2020 г. в 12:26, Zhenya Stanilovsky
>> > < [hidden email]
>> > > >:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Igniters, i found that suggesting zero backup for performance
>> > > improvements
>> > > > sounds like malicious and further problems suggestion. May be it`s
>> time
>> > > to
>> > > > remove it ?
>> > > >
>> > > > Example:
>> > > > [07:59:27] Performance suggestions for grid (fix if possible)
>> > > > [07:59:27] To disable, set
>> > -DIGNITE_PERFORMANCE_SUGGESTIONS_DISABLED=true
>> > > > [07:59:27] ^-- Decrease number of backups (set 'backups' to 0)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > > Alexei Scherbakov
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Alexei Scherbakov