Collaboration process at Ignite

[Ognen Duzlevski]

+1 on IRC. I hate slack with passion.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways. Reading digests of
> chats seems to me pointless waste of time as well.
> Probably I'll filter them out as Cos suggested :) Devlist is enough, I
> don't understand the roots of this discussion.
>
> Sergi
>
> 2015-08-11 2:02 GMT+03:00 Nikita Ivanov <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Zapier +1 from me. We can have pretty automated digest posted to the dev
> > list, if we want.
> >
> > --
> > Nikita Ivanov
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Raul Kripalani <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Would be ideal
> > > > if Slack chats could be sent to the dev list on a daily basis as a
> > safety
> > > > net.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That would be great. There's Slack Digest [1] we can try. There are
> > > integrations also with Zapier [2] and IFTTT [3], although I think none
> > > offers daily digest emails. Worse comes to worst, we can build
> something
> > > directly against the Slack channels.history API [4]. A little Camel
> > > integration, off the top of my head ;-)
> > >
> > > [1] http://slackdigest.com/digest.html
> > > [2] https://zapier.com/zapbook/slack/
> > > [3] https://ifttt.com/slack
> > > [4] https://api.slack.com/methods/channels.history
> > >
> > > *Raúl Kripalani*
> > > Apache Camel PMC Member & Committer | Enterprise Architect, Open Source
> > > Integration specialist
> > > http://about.me/raulkripalani |
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/raulkripalani
> > > http://blog.raulkr.net | twitter: @raulvk
> > >
> >
>

[dsetrakyan]

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.


Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.

Can others respond here?

D.

[nivanov]

Can actually Sergey's point too... Ideally Slack could/should replace dev
lists - but we can't go this route anyways. If community doesn't see a need
for chat solution (in addition to email lists), I'm fine with that too.

--
Nikita Ivanov


On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.
>
>
> Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
> think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
> if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.
>
> Can others respond here?
>
> D.
>

[Konstantin Boudnik-2]

I encourage everyone here to reflect on this emails http://bit.ly/1IASLEK from
Niclas Hedhman. He's one of the Apache folks who I am listening very
closely whenever he says something.

That another reason why I avoid noisy chatter-channels like IRC, Skype, or
Slack (yes, I am making an effort to stay out of the company's channels, for
instance): if ppl need my input - they will email me or IM me. If they don't -
I won't waste my time shouting to the wind, as no one will ever scroll up and
re-read two days worth of a chat history.

Filtering tons of stuff that is highly irrelevant to what you're working on at
the moment is incredibly counter-productive. Replacing one's personal
communication discipline with a digital channel chain is hardly a solution to
grow a community; or perhaps a viable development community.

Cos

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 07:46PM, Nikita Ivanov wrote:

> Can actually Sergey's point too... Ideally Slack could/should replace dev
> lists - but we can't go this route anyways. If community doesn't see a need
> for chat solution (in addition to email lists), I'm fine with that too.
>
> --
> Nikita Ivanov
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Guys,
> > >
> > > I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.
> >
> >
> > Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
> > think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
> > if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.
> >
> > Can others respond here?
> >
> > D.
> >

[Vishal Garg]

I think chat is more effective as a 1-1 interaction or Limited group interaction 2-3) like collaborative design of a solution or code review

Replacing DEV list as chat could be chaos.
Another useful tool if we can for collaborative  design is a code review tool. Nothing reads better than the code itself. But doing collaborative code review on JIRA is just not scalable.

Last time we looked at something, we could not find a good free tool that suffices that
/vishal

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2015, at 9:18 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I encourage everyone here to reflect on this emails http://bit.ly/1IASLEK from
> Niclas Hedhman. He's one of the Apache folks who I am listening very
> closely whenever he says something.
>
> That another reason why I avoid noisy chatter-channels like IRC, Skype, or
> Slack (yes, I am making an effort to stay out of the company's channels, for
> instance): if ppl need my input - they will email me or IM me. If they don't -
> I won't waste my time shouting to the wind, as no one will ever scroll up and
> re-read two days worth of a chat history.
>
> Filtering tons of stuff that is highly irrelevant to what you're working on at
> the moment is incredibly counter-productive. Replacing one's personal
> communication discipline with a digital channel chain is hardly a solution to
> grow a community; or perhaps a viable development community.
>
> Cos
>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 07:46PM, Nikita Ivanov wrote:
>> Can actually Sergey's point too... Ideally Slack could/should replace dev
>> lists - but we can't go this route anyways. If community doesn't see a need
>> for chat solution (in addition to email lists), I'm fine with that too.
>>
>> --
>> Nikita Ivanov
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
>>> think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
>>> if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.
>>>
>>> Can others respond here?
>>>
>>> D.
>>>

[Konstantin Boudnik-2]

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 09:41PM, Vishal Garg wrote:
> I think chat is more effective as a 1-1 interaction or Limited group
> interaction 2-3) like collaborative design of a solution or code review
>
> Replacing DEV list as chat could be chaos.  Another useful tool if we can
> for collaborative  design is a code review tool. Nothing reads better than
> the code itself. But doing collaborative code review on JIRA is just not
> scalable.
>
> Last time we looked at something, we could not find a good free tool that suffices that

Yeah, reviewboard sucks badly. IntelliJ Upsource is pretty good, but I'd say
it needs to bake-in for a bit longer.

Cos

> /vishal
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 10, 2015, at 9:18 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I encourage everyone here to reflect on this emails http://bit.ly/1IASLEK from
> > Niclas Hedhman. He's one of the Apache folks who I am listening very
> > closely whenever he says something.
> >
> > That another reason why I avoid noisy chatter-channels like IRC, Skype, or
> > Slack (yes, I am making an effort to stay out of the company's channels, for
> > instance): if ppl need my input - they will email me or IM me. If they don't -
> > I won't waste my time shouting to the wind, as no one will ever scroll up and
> > re-read two days worth of a chat history.
> >
> > Filtering tons of stuff that is highly irrelevant to what you're working on at
> > the moment is incredibly counter-productive. Replacing one's personal
> > communication discipline with a digital channel chain is hardly a solution to
> > grow a community; or perhaps a viable development community.
> >
> > Cos
> >
> >> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 07:46PM, Nikita Ivanov wrote:
> >> Can actually Sergey's point too... Ideally Slack could/should replace dev
> >> lists - but we can't go this route anyways. If community doesn't see a need
> >> for chat solution (in addition to email lists), I'm fine with that too.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Nikita Ivanov
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Guys,
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
> >>> think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
> >>> if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.
> >>>
> >>> Can others respond here?
> >>>
> >>> D.
> >>>

[Raul Kripalani-2]

Good point, Cos.

If the goal is to back up the chats, Slack offers that feature but it's a
paid one for over 10,000 msgs. I'll ask them if they are willing to offer
the service for free to an ASF project. To my knowledge, the person who
contacted Slack from the community-dev thread didn't ask this question.

Option B is to generate and upload the transcripts to a server, and link
out from the Apache Ignite site. Then use Google Search to make them
searchable.

But in practice this is only helpful to end users who want to check out if
their question has already been asked. Devs will likely never resort to the
transcripts and will expect decisions and big changes to be discussed on
the MLs.

If, on the other hand, the goal is to broadcast the matters of the day for
everyone to stay updated on a daily basis, I agree with Cos. Unnecessary
noise.

Raúl.
On 10 Aug 2015 23:47, "Konstantin Boudnik" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:41PM, Raul Kripalani wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Would be ideal
> > > if Slack chats could be sent to the dev list on a daily basis as a
> safety
> > > net.
>
> I imagine that it will just raise a noise level on the dev@ list and most
> ppl
> will have to filter it out. If you feel like having these chats recorded -
> consider creating a separate list for all. But really I think even that is
> excessive.
>
> > That would be great. There's Slack Digest [1] we can try. There are
> > integrations also with Zapier [2] and IFTTT [3], although I think none
> > offers daily digest emails. Worse comes to worst, we can build something
> > directly against the Slack channels.history API [4]. A little Camel
> > integration, off the top of my head ;-)
> >
> > [1] http://slackdigest.com/digest.html
> > [2] https://zapier.com/zapbook/slack/
> > [3] https://ifttt.com/slack
> > [4] https://api.slack.com/methods/channels.history
> >
> > *Raúl Kripalani*
> > Apache Camel PMC Member & Committer | Enterprise Architect, Open Source
> > Integration specialist
> > http://about.me/raulkripalani | http://www.linkedin.com/in/raulkripalani
> > http://blog.raulkr.net | twitter: @raulvk
>

[Denis Magda]

I share Sergey's point.

I tend to use instant messaging as less as possible turning off or
muting messengers.
Plus, I won't look over unread messages in chats when I have free time.
However I'm fully OK to look into the interesting topics on the dev list
while drinking a cup of tea :)

--
Denis

On 8/11/2015 5:07 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.
>
> Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
> think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
> if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.
>
> Can others respond here?
>
> D.
>

[Pavel Tupitsyn-3]

+1 for email instead of chats.

> Yeah, reviewboard sucks badly.
Does it? I heard that it may be painful to install, but from user point of
view it worked fine for me before. Certainly a lot better than no review
tool at all.


On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I share Sergey's point.
>
> I tend to use instant messaging as less as possible turning off or muting
> messengers.
> Plus, I won't look over unread messages in chats when I have free time.
> However I'm fully OK to look into the interesting topics on the dev list
> while drinking a cup of tea :)
>
> --
> Denis
>
>
> On 8/11/2015 5:07 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.
>>>
>>
>> Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
>> think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
>> if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.
>>
>> Can others respond here?
>>
>> D.
>>
>>
>

--
--
Pavel Tupitsyn
GridGain Systems, Inc.
www.gridgain.com

[Ognen Duzlevski]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I share Sergey's point.
>
> I tend to use instant messaging as less as possible turning off or muting
> messengers.
> Plus, I won't look over unread messages in chats when I have free time.
> However I'm fully OK to look into the interesting topics on the dev list
> while drinking a cup of tea :)
>

I think it is perfectly OK to have an IRC channel for the developers.
Having one does not obligate anyone to sit on it and "man it" 24/7. I think
one of the things to understand is that Ignite is supposed to move from a
"company run" project to a community run one. That means that there will be
(hopefully) various people sitting on the IRC channel at all sorts of
hours. I am not a Java developer but I have enough development experience
under my belt to one day maybe sit down and pick a JIRA ticket to work on.
It is much easier asking a series of quick questions, sharing some example
code and getting details on various possible approaches (and their up/down
sides) on an IRC channel with a live dev or two than writing up emails.

Just my $.02

[Konstantin Boudnik-2]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 03:18PM, Pavel Tupitsyn wrote:
> +1 for email instead of chats.
>
> > Yeah, reviewboard sucks badly.
> Does it? I heard that it may be painful to install, but from user point of
> view it worked fine for me before. Certainly a lot better than no review
> tool at all.

Just my personal experience of using it on-n-off in the last 5 years or so.

> On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I share Sergey's point.
> >
> > I tend to use instant messaging as less as possible turning off or muting
> > messengers.
> > Plus, I won't look over unread messages in chats when I have free time.
> > However I'm fully OK to look into the interesting topics on the dev list
> > while drinking a cup of tea :)
> >
> > --
> > Denis
> >
> >
> > On 8/11/2015 5:07 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Sergi Vladykin <[hidden email]
> >> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Guys,
> >>>
> >>> I don't think I'm going to hang in these chats anyways.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hm... that's actually a valid point. I am more than willing to try it, and
> >> think it is not a bad idea for adoption, but it would be nice to find out
> >> if the rest of the community is OK with monitoring the chat room.
> >>
> >> Can others respond here?
> >>
> >> D.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> --
> Pavel Tupitsyn
> GridGain Systems, Inc.
> www.gridgain.com